First I am happy for the Iraqi people.
Second, since much of the posting on this site deals with inconvenient facts, facts that contradict received dogma I feel the need to mention one of many inconvenient facts: Non of the 19 men who crashed the planes into the WTC buildings and the Pentagon was an Iraqi. All but possibly one were Saudi - a nominal ally.
hey all, i'm back in seattle!
broke up with the boyfriend, and came on home.
sorry we didn't get to have that beer in ohio, yesterdays child!
Welcome back to Seattlegrad. Good luck in moving to Capitol Hill - it's as close as one can get to being a Witness - Free Zone.
i have heard that there are purported to be quite a number of you apostate types in my area.
so far i'm inclined to believe this is just a rumor.
i'm harmless, truly.
We Are Everywhere ... even in oh so livable Seattle. I live in the Lake City neighborhood, no KH but we have Rick's!
not alcoholics anonymous, mind you.
:) atheists/agnostics.
i know there are some of us here; who's with me?
Another Ag' slacker checking in.
'No god(s), no masters.'
as a long time poster on other message boards.
i have often noticed, that despite the topic, there are always certain personalities on each.
i guess it is kind of like the congregation, in that no matter what one you were in, there were characters that matched up with the one you left.
As a would-be Intellectual who probably is just a middlin' Debater I have to differ with you on the last category of your board bestiary - the Anarchist. I do not disagree with the content,it's spot on. It's the label. I ask you to replace it with the Nihlist. Disruption for no other reason than personal gratification is the m.o. of the Nihlist. The Nihlist stands for nothing - check out the dictionary. The anarchists that I know and consider to be friends take stands. I may disagree with them on tactics and theory but I am glad to have them by my side. Anyone can loot a Starbucks and call themselves an anarchist. You are free to call yourself an 'anarchist' without having read a word of Kropotkin, Bookchin, Chomsky or LeGuin. Ultimately anarchism is as anarchism does. If you want to see anarchism in action go to a "Food Not Bombs" street feed - meals delivered to the homeless and all comers without payment or permits.
the latest watchtower, dec 15th 2003, is an out and out attack on the rank and file for dropping into a drowsy state spiritually.
ok, so armageddon didn't come before the generation of 1914 grew old and died.
but does that mean that the big a isn't near?
Please indulge some observations from a some one who was raised in the pre- '75 version of the 'Truth' - and left.
As I see it, a longer duration of the period leading to a terminal date solves a set of Organizational dilemnas. It has been stated that the Organization functions best and grows when there is a stated - or firmly implied - date on the horizon. The problem is when the date passes by. The Organization goes into a slump. This has happened at least three times in the Organization's history. It is a cycle of short-term date setting and stimulation then inevitably date passing and slump. It is exactly analogous to the cycle that almost any stimulant user/abuser goes through. A longer term date setting ('sell by date') is a partial solution to the Organizations dilemna. It provides the stimulation the organization needs, while rationing it out over a longer time - up to thirty years. Think of it - 2034 A.D./C.E. - as the 'sustained release' version of The End Is Nigh.
A longer duration also solves the problem of the restricted income potential of the rank and file. An Organization built around the earnings of window washers etc. has limited potential. The Organization has already retreated from its stance on post-secondary education. Just think of the unfortunate child being born right now to Witness parents. There will be enough time for the child to come of age and take narrow technical courses - no context please! - at their local community college. By the time 2034 rolls around they should be at their peak earning power. By then the date horizon should have been pushed out yet again.
I can understand the reluctance of the Organization to abandon 1914 in its chronology. 1914 was a watershed year, one of those years that history seems to pivot around. The historian Eric Hobsbawm - someone not remotely sympathetic to the Witnesses -in his history of the twentieth century The Age of Extremes starts his narrative in 1914. He posits a Short Twentieth Century that began in 1914 and ended in 1989. Other historians have noted the break that occurs with that year. No supernatural explanation is necessary.
" if the watchtower said it, and the men on the platform preached it, then it must have been true.
so it was very hard to accept as an adult, that they were wrong.
i blame myself.
I'm typing this at a public library terminal, so I need to pick up where I left off.
As I was 'analogizing' , the decision of the smoker doesn't just impact himself but also whoever shares his airspace and if the smoker is a she, her unborn child as well.
An interesting aspect of the libertarian faith that the original poster apparently subscribes to is that if they had their way, going to court would be the only way we have to change the behavior of corporations. According to their dogma, if say a power company is polluting your air your only recourse would be as an individual to sue them. Regulation is anathema to them. Then of course they bitch about frivolous lawsuits.
" if the watchtower said it, and the men on the platform preached it, then it must have been true.
so it was very hard to accept as an adult, that they were wrong.
i blame myself.
Notes from the POV of someone who was indoctrinated during his formative years. I, like others was drafted - we did not enlist in the 'Truth'.
I wish to reintroduce the concept of 'corporate responsibility' to this thread. Originated by 'pistoff' in first page. Discussion as as I see it is viewing subject from wrong end of telescope. WTS is a multinational corporation with zealous 'distributors' on every inhabited continent. It should be responsible for its policies.
It's interesting to see cigarette manufacturers mentioned. Those who 'choose' to smoke are not the only ones impacted.
a poster recently brought up an interesting topic... about how the wtbts always makes big deals out of nothing.. case in point?.
how jesus was crusified on a tree, rather than a cross.
i mean, does it really matter that much?
Re: Beards
I remember as a child the illustrations of all the males from Adam on - beardless. This started to change as the seventies progressed. And I remember Jesus on a stick - I mean stake.
as many of you know, i am 63, and left the religion about 40 years ago.
i was raised in it and would like to explain what it was like compared to today.
first of all, back in the mid to late 40's the patriotism of the u.s. was very high and the treatment at the door was very harsh.
Q: Is there posted anywhere a chronology of the various changes posted here. Especially those changes that occured at the 'kingdom hall' level? I find it fascinating to match up my childhood memories with the changes that adults were grappling with. The smoking ban impacted my family.
It's ironic that much of the institutional memory of this sect is now in exile, posting on sites such as this. Reading these posts triggers memories of the 'kingdom hall' that my family attended. It was a long established building. If you prowled around the basement storage areas - as a kid is wont to do - you got a sense of it's hidden history. The 'service board' is an example of this. Now I am trying to recreate the basement in my mind. Is anyone into Witness/Bible Student collectibles? I guess I should check E-bay to see if anyone is selling Rutherford era gramophones etc.
